Selected Interview Segments: Vicente T. Ximenes

  
  
  

Vicente T. Ximenes,
Equal Employment Opportunity Commissioner
Copyright 2007 South Texas Public Broadcasting System, INC.

Q: How was it explained to you what American G.I. Forum was supposed to do for the Mexican-Americans?

A: Well, Dr. Garcia spoke to a group that was, you know, new at that particular meeting. My impression immediately was, "how can the Doctor be talking about eliminating discrimination and, "getting the Mexican-American," you know, "to become part of the establishment when," I could see that we were so far from anything like what he was talking about. I thought it was kind of 'pie in the sky,' that here is a group of people that are going to be able to solve their own problems and that was something different.

Ordinarily, we've always talked about solving problems, but somebody else is going to solve them for us. And here's a Doctor talking about solving problems, but we're going to solve them ourselves. Different from what we or I had envisioned as far as being able to cope with issues having to do with such things as bad housing, discrimination, low wages, bad jobs, uh, disrespect for our language. Things like that. The Doctor's saying, "we are going to solve those problems ourselves." I liked that and I understood that.

I was prepared to become a--perhaps a teacher or a professor and set up there in class and expound, perhaps on these issues, but not get out there and-and organize people and say to them, "get up off you hind legs and do something!" I wanted to expound on the issues. That was my idea, before I knew Dr. Hector Garcia and he was telling me something else. He was telling me, "no. You've got to get out there and organize individuals and people and you've got to give them the history and the story and you've got to get them to do something." now that's-that was--that was the pitch that he made the first time I ever met him in Corpus Christi in his office.

What surprised me at the meeting with Dr. Garcia, that he didn't have professionals there at his meeting. And I had expected a physician to probably call upon other professionals, accountants, you know, drug-pharmacists, um, professors, uh, attorneys, to bring them in together. Instead of that, he had people that were workers. The ones I saw there, in the first meeting, were probably all workers, with one or two exceptions.

Q: Could you talk some about Dr. Hector's personality? You said that he really moved people.

A: Well, Dr. Garcia was really a gentleman and a scholar.. He could argue with politicians and he could tell them that they're doing wrong and that there are-there is injustice in the land and he could still remain friendly, that is to say--he would still be able to come back and talk to them.

The other thing is he had a vision. And he had a vision that single-handedly or with help, one way or the other, he, personally, was going to end discrimination against the Hispanics. Now, you know, it's one of those things that you wonder, "What kind of vision is that?" I mean, the problem is so mammoth. But that's the sort of vision he had. And then in order to carry it out, he wasn't patient. He could not stand, you know, people who would not-could not react quickly.

At times, you might even say that he would run over some people you know, because they did not react, they did not move, at times, depending on where he was, you know, he could be overbearing. I would sit there and squirm as the Doctor was getting too heavy and too overbearing. And all of it was an impatience -- "I've got so much time, I've gotta do it within my life time. It's gotta get done and this is the only way to do it." and I know for a fact that he did run over some people. By that I mean, run over them in terms of telling them, "look," uh, "you're just not doing your job. I mean you've got to get on with it." and mostly, but mostly in a positive way that you're not moving. It was never-never really negative. So I was one of those individuals that had a very good repartee with him. I understood him very well.

Q: In our research we don't find a direct connection between Dr. Garcia and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And I was just curious if you had any insight in the area, here you have extremely strong individuals who each stood much for the same thing who went through the same time period yet there is no overlap. Any insight into why not?

A: Yeah. I have an insight on it because I lived it as far as, you know, being in Washington, you know, and specifically in terms of Martin Luther King and the black cause and the Mexican-American cause.

Martin Luther King was involved in the battle that had to do with life or death. No question about it. We were not in that kind of a battle. We were in a battle, but it was not similar to coming up from slavery. You know, to being able to eat at a lunch counter or even get a job. You know, it wasn't quite the same thing. The goals were absolutely different. We would talk about language, the blacks could care less. "language, what are you talking about?" you know. Dr. Garcia would go out there and talk about, you know, "we have to preserve our language." talking to the blacks-there's no meeting grounds on that one-at all.

You know, uh, anything that had to do with, you know, heritage. Blacks wouldn't listen to it. And we would not listen to their piece of the heritage. I mean they were incompatible. You know. Blacks would talk about bussing for schools. Mexican-American don't talk about bussing for schools. They say, "no we got a community right here. We got a school right over here. And we ain't going to get bussed." completely different-than the blacks. "we're not going to get bussed, we'll integrate." at whatever price necessary, no meeting of ground there, you know.

Housing was the same way. Our communities were built differently--separately and even though they were barrios, we were still saying, "we have to hold power and the only way to hold power is that we have to keep intact. And we want it built right here where we are. If you're going to help me, help me at where I am. I don't want to have to move."

Martin Luther King was Baptist. We were Catholics. Lot of--a lot of difference you know, no questions. It isn't said. People don't say it, but it was there. If you were to ask me, "do you believe in the Martin Luther King?" yes. "in what he did?" yes. Absolutely. "support him?" yes. Absolutely. 100%. He was on the right track. But I've got some other problems here. And we never were able to come together on the main issues.